Extra sauce Episode 36: The Directors Of Wild Wild Country, Maclain And Chapman Way

Tuesday, April 3rd

Since Greg has been raving about the Netflix Documentary Series Wild Wild Country we talked to directors Maclain and Chapman Way to give us some Extra Sauce on the bizarre incident that took place in Oregon in the 80's.

00:25:15

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Welcome to the extra sauce podcast. On the offensive. Would this jar of sauce see. What's going on March you don't want this op but Lyle. How was England well it was fantastic thank you for asking our the sauces and Angela that SARS is or not they agree that amount of vinegar or you vinegar on Fries again I see you're absolutely that's big over there since ships he had been around it and but you know I mean it was it was a lot of fun it was you know it was like it's a role than they don't like to spend a lot of time when their parents anymore so it's nice to go away and and and and force them to get and a different country where they can escape I can escape. Kind of like the subject that we're gonna talk about that aren't well enough that cult at an extra spot at the exercised this week is brought to you by road map lyzard nice people great service. Any time it's well documented that I don't do any work on my home myself by hire people. I'm not home improvement guy and anytime I need anything done an electrical plumbing and heating air conditioning. Road Nuys or does it may do well also get old amendment and and they are presenting. This episode of exercise which is all about a documentary did that I've been assessment on Netflix called wild wild country. It's about a cult that began in India in the in the seventies. A kind of via free sex enlightenment type called which you know I mean I'm -- for them to do sir we have any of those around here that somebody KK a joint apart armored have to be only the only thing I know that has like a free sex cult thing going is is government of about it though right now and a so. They decided to come to America and they bought thousands and thousands of acres in in Oregon and started fighting Libya or millions and and and then in the whole entire thing to spiraled out of control and it is covered in six amazing. Hockey series episodes and Netflix which you've enjoyed I mean it's a little slow it slow it does a lot of information to deal with so the first episodes kind of setting you up. For the very quick unraveling. Of everybody that happens in the documentary it it's as it happened so quickly so it's good that you gotta make it through the first two episodes taken all the information and then it just. It's easier futile process. This on real stuff that happens well the directors of wild wild country on Netflix are joining us this week on extra sauce McClain and Chapman way. And they put it altogether and they are here today to give us a little extra sauce. And wild wild country guys. While I. Listen I consider myself to be I grew up in the eighties I'm an old man I'm 51. I consider myself to have been somewhat focused on what was going on around me at the time when I was when I was a teenager news wise. But I completely missed. This whole entire story how did you guys become familiar. You have what we kind of born after the whole or in Fargo happen propped his her own and so you were just basically given a tip. From an archivist to like 300 hours of never before but it on this story. I remember immediately my parent if you remember that rock. Or slower in your group bought on Russian mission my dad kind of being be remembered the world or your room but. Yeah the story is really kind of disappeared. The Brit for those who haven't followed my advice and and my pleadings to watch. The be indeed. He he we have how many rolls Royces ditty into the end up with the is at one point BM up with a thirty or forty rolls Royces this very religious guy. I think by the end it was 93 when the proposal now by 1986 I. Yeah any you know you he ran this cult in in in India and it's. You know began to I guess the you know it's be somewhat of the threats almost. To the government of India. Hence why. The call decided that they needed to come to America is that a fair representation. Of of what happened. Yeah I think you have the power in being here are the kind of like me area like western capitalism and open sexuality look like eastern mysticism so yeah it on up or walk in from all over the world a lot of westerners when you out of the people my dream India and trader com what the locals there India records pension government officials. A little later in the period in out there. There's some criminality aspect but were under investigation. At this from in India over the multitude of good and account for that matter in Vietnam and. Yeah I mean when you say he was the first TV probably was the last 21 in the I mean you suggest. To people that you can have lots of money and all the sexy want to and somehow that's your religion people are probably gonna buy into that for a for a period of time I guess right. Yeah exactly that's the kind of despite right at the beginning of they look kind of like the last remnant of that like kind of like 1960 account or cultural movement where. It was the beginning of what's known is like this human potential movement and it was almost looked like you stern migration of Americans to India who are. Think all the little speakers and they're kind of like on a path though they wanna I wanna walk the path of enlightenment and raise their consciousness. And I mean all. You know do root and India a lot of those like into it the traditions or about like rejection and kind of projection a while and there would and that's how you become enlightened and the Wong kind of married like this western capitalism with eastern Mitt but that the minute truck big I mean obviously if you could tell a lot of American. Liked what he was saying they like the fact that you did have a life of pleasure and still feel like you're becoming enlightened and so. They excited at the top I think all of that part of Britain white came to a barricade it was because. But India has had a lot of kubert in the past and I think you look at America as a country that. Haven't had a lot of cue group and America with kind of almost like the Major League then it like he could come to America like make it big in America I'd like to leave a mark on America. And I'll be issued a legacy that he would have. You know that that's the part of this documentary that fascinates me the most you know Greg mentioned you offer somebody you know free sacks. In now and and you know eternal peace or whatever sure you're gonna go Ford but it just seems like. The way like chain store the way the Australian moment yeah the way she described first meeting or seen the bottom line. And like just giving her entire being to him. And that's the comments or triggers all these peoples as gave up everything to give to him and follow every single word he said. There's got to Detroit wasn't talking right we're a year so did that's all these people they must've had something in their lives I mean it was like key that something missing in their lives. That that they just would give them up itself up so freely. Yeah I think the birth a wide range of one often but it trying to think the really interesting thing up off the movement is that for the most part it was. Highly intellectual very successful people people that had reached the common cold or couriers and found out there that took him out with spelling out I was on the historic auto dealer got these bumping mortal life and so I'm not really interesting. Kind of smorgasbord of a human being Bjorn this movement obviously yeah water them. You know they've come from brought trial third rock you know. Brought family background and found comfort and and community and family and and this and I think that would make historical complexes that army of people real human being input with real problems like the rest of us that Jordan movement. Another you know really interesting is like our experience parking that kind of like whether they're current Russian is cheaper former Russian issue. The lot of them did grow up like China highly religious. I don't. And and background and so forth think in some way it wasn't so much a story. And never being early for never being fearful and then just kind of being bog on and then just. That devotion absolutely just kicked in immediately. Apparent that like what I mean it felt popping in and I don't like the substitution of some sort where they were either rated quite highly Catholic or Christian or more men. Or kind of a quote unquote like more traditional. Religious background. And then kind of became disillusioned with that and then came across bog Juan and found comfort kind of in that spirituality again. And then I mean the weird thing was that kind of toward the end that we would speak to members. When Bart Kwan did take about violent. They're like appreciation for their experience it seemed to be was more geared towards took the offense the like family and community that they felt they had out in origin. It bought one wasn't talking and well. I think that the out a lot of the want the buyer came from a plays that'll wanting to be a part of something wanting to be a part of a family wanting to feel a connection with something which I think a lot of an art there and to popping them a lot of them said that they add up. 011 of the most interesting things interview wise that you get to see is. Is the daughter of congressman who was killed while investigating. Jim Jones and his cult in nine guiana. And the fact that she has gone and joined this call after everything that happened to her father. Yeah you know that. Rocket firms are in 1981 vote of two or three years after all Jonestown massacre in a yeah in the Bachmann are trying to get into the kind of you know whole hysteria and paranoia about sweeping the nation and there's you know a lot of rightwing evangelical. What you're seeing the work poll that kind of what you legitimize any group that different than christianity and you get to hear from problem. Leo Ryan's daughter you know who talks about it and you know that the article from from their respective that the vote religious minority track you know we're here to do you are mean we're here on why are so well. You know Jim Jones was what the Christian work eastern that the number two totally different arm perhaps he thought. They get really interesting pardon series or the audience the app BC critical thinking and think about what is the difference in religion and pull them you know not always the what and why. So the the call call call call they the day by 80000 acres. In in Oregon a ranch and that's where things really started to get (%expletive) up and sell. They hit. They came and they were not welcomed by the townspeople. And they certainly. Fought back and and this is where we really get to meet who I think is the most interesting and disturbing. Person in in the whole entire documentary. And and that issue I mean and and just I how did you how did you get her in late may be calorie a little bit about honor and and how you ended up getting there. You have monarch and she'll. Known as a personal secretary for the peer group but really issue kind of the CEO of the empire empire she really kind of built the entire movement. Shield Opel pretty much the entire phobia that all the planning and more in the jury took about violent wouldn't speak anymore she became the state but the movement you spoke publicly issued to talk shows up on pole there's a lot and she's just this really kind of feisty style now. Provocative. On the young woman and you really can't pick or shipped from people and I think that. You know that. Ground woman coming eastern organ which is an incredibly conservative cowboy colts sure those as the huge class supporters out there between that woman and and the neighboring town of analog. Now how much you say a brown skinned woman how much do you think racism or bigotry religious bigotry played into this because it seemed like. Ed and the way you guys made it seem like in the beginning but some seem so bad these people are growing vegetables they were making their own schools that's fine we have religious. Groups in this country like the west Borough Baptist Church or which we get rid of but they have every right to exist so how much did bigotry. Or racism force them into what they became in what Sheila became like debate pusher. Your view Blake and I. Yeah I think that's what I like the central question of the series and I don't think that they're like real light up like a black and white answer to that. Obviously like if you talk to on the job than Barack any issue he wondered are current or former. They'll tell you like there experience was that like it and really feel that welcome in the eastern origin and and obviously it Epoch or don't and in a justifiable that they'll tell you like hey are liars like severely negatively impacted by the Russian people rival and present them or against. I think it happened was is that like Sheila I think felt like he had bought a 64000 acre ranch in the middle pocket and nowhere is it. Nineteen miles away from antelope she probably felt like she was allowed to do whatever she wants out there. And very rapidly think 120 million dollar of her own organization's money into kind of transforming its weight landed like their utopia. And I think what happens quickly is that she kind of run up against it but very strict org and land use laws. It's like origin with the exception of the capable of Hawaii has some of the most tight lipped the remote quite restrictive. Land use laws in the country until very quickly I think she'll fight or open a position where she's committed her entire organization. And a vast majority of their resources to that plan. There really is no backtracking at this point. On but I think the question becomes like ladder. Elaine and you was really what the local Rangers were objecting to or not. To David current tenants of the ranch are young life but Christian group they're essentially doing the same exact thing the Russian Jews are doing and when we are out there are kind of feedback that we are getting from eastern Oregon and what that they don't really have too much problem with young accredited Herbalife differences between the two groups. But I think that I I think that question of bigotry and racism that kind of 1 of the most central question of the period. But there's definitely there's certainly a few elements who operate and bigotry but I don't think those that are indicative of the entire community and although I think on there are concerned that their own gears but mostly you know the people that like a little quicker if they don't like to be altered to Newt eastern organ kind of in the middle nowhere or purpose and I know when this new group of 101000 people or had it's going to read moved back story just kind of all Holbrooke would. And some people and backed into a corner like she little eyes would respond in a court of law Sheila had. Her own unique. A bat (%expletive) crazy way of responding in in several cases and I wanna. I wanna discuss that we just have to pods briefly though to to pass the yeah offering played around here guys on the land. Oh well when when we return I want to discuss the sad fate of the beavers. And and other and other things but weird exercise has brought Cuba Rhoden risers so we have a quick message from our friends recognized. Recognize there is growing and actively seeking to hire teams of experienced HB AC and plumbing technicians as well as electricians right now they offer endless benefits full health and dental insurance a generous 401K plan three weeks paid time off and even tuition reimbursement so what can you do how about heading over to wrote Anheuser dot com it will apply now RO DE NH IS ER quit your job and start a career with the road Anheuser and now let's get to the show. So I once. Once Sheila is. Is sort of feeling threatened to not only did she go Loudon. Try to buy up the town in and and arm. I you know that the there the the book called the police force with the with the millions of rounds of ammo and AK forty sevens and everything. But she also starts to try to win some elections which I think is when this thing really really turns interest guys. Yeah absolutely a crap meant like one of the more terrifying aspect of this story. Even so much in the actual. 5000 homeless people and register them because or an added when he day. I'll go to residency requirement. It legal that they at eight rock. Peace force that they were able to spend their members. To be Oregon state police academy because they were an incorporated city though. I think how Olympic lifting of like at all. At the heart of the story brought in Europe. Oftentimes is like the amount of political power that one that that an organization can get when they incorporate as their own town and have the money to buy at other counts on and create like electoral mayhem. Now obviously toward the and light it built over the that it completely illegal worry about it that the nation conspiracy attempt against political appointees. And and poisoning of 750 people that Manila and local restaurants. But but that was what I was so interested in starting the glory with kind of actually seeing you seemingly very aggressive that. But that we're essentially legal on the books. What's really sad thing about the poisoning their record and equally parent our an event that happened records or that would suit. You know the government refuses all of these people the right to vote which just so un American. Paralyzed on you know not that everything happened in the history of our country or work. Yet Vietnam war veterans who work out there but you know community but they bulk. Supporter from the community and one of the boat that be a part of the community and amber denied the right to vote. And wiping Sheila in retaliation. You know I talked to the absolutely bizarre plan to. You know sprinkled Salmonella in salad bar across the city saw that the locals would get sick and they wanna be allowed to vote on election that. And when her homeless people that that she had a busted and then brought to the community couldn't vote. She decided to drug all of them by by putting gas something in their beer. They don't plan doesn't work out there I think her. That anyone's expectation it doesn't it's not a very new kind of working out plan but basically common they're denied the right to vote and make an app like what one of our interview he's teaching a hornets snapped in the community. At that point yeah kind of what you mentioned earlier in the air interview with what we actually got back. From a lot of rock music on the whereas they were being homeless people getting bought into the ranch. They were kind of realizing like and that the so far away from our original goal of hike raising our consciousness and peaceful meditation and and practicing yoga in the middle of the Oregon desert. That this so different than that. And it buried and and they would even populate kind of like you mentioned that that kind of the beginning of the end through. What brilliant script and and the you know biffle right after Reagan kind of be funded all opened traditions and America so there's an influx of of all the people mistreat would really serious mental illness and a lot of them were bidding rounded up in and spot so this commune and organ. And so we know what can peak of the Oklahoma arrival back one up on the ranch of salt one up on the ramps actual ball we're gone up on the ranch so. Like Mac that are really betrayed the hornets nestled in the community and and bizarrely they felt the best way to handle that was cute seek early but how overall with a tranquilizer into the B Europe they would sort of almost people at night time. The sub view them. And so yeah kind of the beginning of the and this utopia of a community one that are happening. I feel like half of these like half of the things you see in this are our plot lines on the left overs I mean it's like yeah it's it's on it's amazing yeah. I'm is was she knows cooperation. Tough to get and and did you leave. I am after interviewing there. On many occasions did did you Cleveland with a in any kind of impression about her mental stability at this point. Yeah how we eat we took about three different trip to Switzerland that span Imus she'll beat Serbia game when he got now. The residents of her help our clinic that she runs now. Armed and those who were really interest experience we're getting the pop occur on. Industry clearly feel like she's never been really given an opportunity to explain the earth in the balance from her perspective from what she saw I think it's very clear when you'll walk into treatment you know she felt like she was quote stop. Near the back up against the wall she felt like human being and a lot of bigotry a lot of persecution. Arm and you know this is how cheese she responded. And I think there are a lot of true crime documentary where you know from the deck earlier look at the anchor her whole (%expletive) you know when it's. Think guerrilla more complex thing about humility to know -- from one cubic anchor Kirk coming to America you can bury him and if this precocious. Charming woman and then slowly through her devotion to appearance in the you start the speaker turned in trouble now and so I think everyone gonna walk they have kind of a different impression of Sheila generally crap and I'm reading all book. All the report the reception on Twitter and on line people were terrified ever since some people think psychopath. Some people think you're an incredible leader the generally about that scene everyone take away equipment different. Yeah I think it's another one of those steams that runs through this week which is that it doesn't matter how. You know how religious you are how enlightened you'll are. It seems to me that that power crops in the absolute power corrupts absolutely and on it and it happened to Sheila. Yeah I think what they did your Finger Lakes. Like kind of cat mentioned that when we first started hearing that story we didn't really approach it with say like a true crime like. What that he event what the evidence who dated who didn't do it to pick up the facts remain abruptly permit the criminality that happened out there. It's very well known documented in people pled guilty and served time doing it but I think what we're interest and and well like peeling back layer than looking at light. The process of radicalization. Back and I happen to people. Our bubble ball both sides you know I mean that was not quite. I think that it was kind of a situation where I think a lot of people felt like all I need a war essentially had broken out and in in eastern origin. And it's like there might have been a few times where you bought in their road to compromise here is their road to conflict resolution and kind of an actor being both sides kind of become immediately entrenched in this you certainly know it's not gonna end up well that was kind of certainly what we wanted to capture and model country. Guys I watch a lot of television and it is for those reasons and and others it really is the most interesting document areas semen in their documentary series that is now on time so. Congratulations. And thanks a lot for joining us then and I guess site I promise we talk about the beavers I mean right eye in the in the and they've got a hang out there. Out here I mean they had day today it is a while for the beavers but it doesn't end well for the B I mean they act as they have this crazy planned to poison the water supply because they were fighting again with the win and they wanted to use beavers and lied beavers. But that that didn't work so they ended up. Putting them the beavers in blenders and then pouring the beaver remains into the water supply and that's verified faction all right. It would be if you want you can say that it it it went in beaver meat John but you have something like. You Ursula. It's disturbing and so many layers I'd listen guys thanks a lot for joining us in and giving us a little exercise on while while country. They think frantic on our radar component. Spoiler alert on the blended beavers sorry about that while technically it's already been in the news right right I don't think has is to somehow you know I remember her. You know memorial watch I remember watching I think it was the night line tenth anniversary show. She was on it. And they showed her because all she said (%expletive) on every time she was on like six times now and she would always swear it was quick and yes he's always like. Footage in the documentary when they're on like the Merv Griffin Show and and tuna it was it was it was now and I completely missed that I feel like and missed like half of the decade or something and I'm really disappointed about them but I caught up I mean it's really really detailed. All right thank you very much for listening this week. To extra sauce will be back next week who is another episode and if you enjoyed what you heard today then please subscribe to actress costs and stitcher or on iTunes. Or and who who'll play.
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