Extra Sauce Episode 15: Greg And Mike Tackle The Native American Mascot Issue With Nipmuc Tribal Council Member Love Richardson

Friday, June 9th

00:28:54

Earlier this week Massachusetts lawmakers debated a bill that would ban the use of Native American imagery for mascots in public schools.  In this episode of Extra Sauce, Greg and Mike talk to Love Richardson of the Nipmuc Nation Tribal Council to get their take on the subject.  Get ready to Sauce up!

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Welcome to the extra songs podcasts. On the offensive software. Would this jar of sauces. Red hill. Well controversy on the sauce this week mr. show Alia that much. Everybody's been talking all week about native American imagery and symbols. With regard to our sports teams here in the commonwealth and our elected officials who are very very busy they were able to. Carve out a little is that a bad I don't wanna I don't wanna doing nine it and they were able to get into it become part of the code but you know I'm talking about Turkey via. They were it will nominee get into the first Thanksgiving thing odds it's it's and I not I mentioned food and tell innocent way they they were able to carve out some time. To discuss whether there should be a law. Which big hands. All native American nicknames and imagery. From our school sports teams and of course I am well known as a legendary. High school athlete from from the region. Shown. Am I somebody fact check that please IA I went through initial about a regional high school in bolt in Massachusetts. And that school was created in the early 1960s. And they chose as nickname for there sports teams The Chieftains. And that's in my history. So that's my in we're talking granted it's not hundreds of years of history but I am old it's it's warm up a century it's forty some years of history and so. When I hear. Somebody say to me. We need to erase all of that history. I'm kind of bothered by that because. I don't. You know I wasn't there when they chose a name I my guess is that they didn't choose the name. To do ride native Americans. I'd I'd think they chose it. It because the region where initially is this still Bolton in Lancaster was a region where. There was initial bump. Tribe that that was that was the parent and they want a team that's that's the history of the comma off I mean that we talked about this on the show this week. But the main Massachusetts. Is it's it's a native American name and it's it's from the what are we what are we to Iowa the Merrimack. Conklin got its and how god what word. There's there are state symbol. Is is a native American. So. I just. I hate the fact that we have the run around constantly. Because somebody is offended by something. And change. Decades or in in many cases hundreds. Of years of history there's we talked about this on the show there's. Horrible things that have happened in history. But you can't. You mean you know because they were horrible you can't erase them from your mind and never talked about the Miami I'd demo it's it's. There's about intense yet and tell them that earlier yeah that you know the the show to chieftains there I don't believe there's any intention to you know deliberately offend. Or or discriminate against anyone only when I was on the basketball court was that was it deliberately offensive to many man to to actually out to athletes everywhere I guess that Jamie's all the others do this so we can take on an answer yes yes. But yeah it's about intent but at the same time here are our people that you know have a very. Terrible history in this country at least for the past. Couple hundred years. And so it if that's something that brings up that history or represented that history two of them. You know don't you think yes should have some consideration their late. Let's I don't wanna be mean and and and like B. Rude and but there is the problem with the imagery is that it's just that it's imagery and people view it. Based on their own and what their own prism is to sell two to broadly defined something. As offensive. When it may be viewed by others in a in a complimentary way I mean it's kind of like so I guess what you're saying is. If if your if it if your native American and year and we're gonna talk to. Love. Richardson. Who is the spokesperson. For the nip makah tribe. On this episode of exercise and and she's a council member and a tribal clerk from the net mark nation Tribal Council she's gonna. She's ready to talk to us here a minute. But I guess. Is it fair to say. That in some cases the imagery is okay like for instance. If you go to Mohegan Sun. Bright day use native American enemy imagery there right. That's OK but those of you who have had a as a part of your history. With regards. Do mystery over regional high school you're not allowed to use it yeah you know lies so begins Sunday there they are native Americans. That I know I'm not I'm not so I don't yeah you know an honor is tell me this is the wrong. Analogy okay so when you say imagery and that's exactly what is this just imagery. But you know what if someone wanted to use a swastika. We know it's still very powerful. Are people I know I know if they did that but they didn't do I mean it made those things you of those examples are always. Something that nobody's ever done you know I that's true or not but also in it now and when you say entries aren't some energy some Iglesias wants to go and maybe they're like OK and it's better or whatever and some people see it and it's as this is the most horrible thing of borrowers. And oatmeal maybe on their side that's how they see. And I think the interesting thing is that you hear from time to time. Native Americans who are divided themselves on this issue for instance during the testimony at the Statehouse this week. And we played it on the shelf and there were several native Americans. Cool field. Honor to. Yeah by the the choice of these symbols in these nicknames so but I I I think you know one thing that I do wanna do is rather than have. Aid some sort of a soccer mom social justice warrior from two experienced. Lead the charge on this side I thought it was important on exercise that we actually spoke win it. A native American. And we are delighted. To have lover Richardson as our guest on extra sauce. What a great name by the way. If he. Do people make all kinds of like when they start to doing puns like Lyle locked in when you walk into a movie aren't into a meeting and I. Yeah I bet it is than it is well. There's been an ongoing debate here over the Massachusetts legislature and the building proposed to eliminate. Native American nick names and symbols. From our school sports programs. And I'm wondering how you feel about that. Or. My view current native American imagery. Early and it's definitely firm. I need to get my education. On the current. Currently I have aren't paying following a lot of news in the article that they are in I think you're leading more shot comment. Currently social media com as Alex. How people who work feel about act. And time I think there's a lot of misunderstanding. About what. Why these names when he derived from Whitney and they change came. And I feel like a lot of pain in his until I had to actually get stereotyped as literary and people. Determine if he hopes. And the war type strategy there with a facial expression. In things like act if we're trying to appropriate action carefully art of people. From there to try and dig nation the United States and all of that had practiced on secretary of her work on the actually K. I really little and this is a great opportunity for education and the outlook looking back on. Doesn't say that there are getting our culture. Curly Q I understand that current. We are that LaRoche to her room. And scan it again in terms with the entry and now term IE. That firm this huge opportunity for education here in little I look at this Shaq has generated a lot of rock. Do you believe that in in the majority of cases. Those images those nicknames were chosen. To deride. Native Americans or 20. Honor native Americans or to pay tribute to native Americans. At least healer than ever would be where. Current. Excuse the different the Chinese culture. Tell her and I think acts. Room. For our state who are different ball arms DM. Didn't need a car. Atlantis should do the term. Krueger's. And should die you act sexuality. And English oral ET. In period over other. Room. Tribes into our nation he now it would in any country so that sort of imagery is just a life. Detection flu packed in Dayton and are so firm. That you have to really look after the history didn't pay and how. I'm different imagery that are out. Sperm for instance Federer in the upper. It is the don't feel in order to believe. What star in and it is speaking of hair and is. If you look at the it can't act happened during that here. And Kool Aid to cap that is going to attack township where cat we were actually peaceful people. You're being on top they support in these inventors. Story behind them. Laugh Factory told people are thinking ordering an order. What about like eight you know the example that that I know most is is that high school that I went to in in bolt and Michelle Obama and team that my kids play for that. That I rode the bench for enough basketball is the new showboat chieftains and so. Isn't I guess when I mean my issue this is that's my history and that's my family's history. And the end in less you can tell me otherwise it seems like that that name chieftain. Was chosen. To represent a strong person and a person who. It did well and and triumph. And you know so is it. Does it mean to be the first of all do you agree or disagree or have a different perspective on that and then doesn't need to be. On a case by case basis with some of these names and some of these symbols. Are you so I don't know what tea in that looks like practiced from the goal achieved and sanctions. Crawled they're leaders cheeks. So except very. Back to stare at vehicles. Her. We eat dirt track how to chief action at what we are giving par Arabs. And loan from Korea. They're not out cheeks firm in their scheme leaders as well. Chief. Ireland. It can affect your question about which there. Yeah well I'm on my my question was there are certainly things that I thinking if you take a look at. This debate beginning in two to prairie and team. That being called the Redman. That that to me is something that is obviously. Can be considered by many to be offensive. But there are other you know. I look at chief then aura or you know and and again if if chief Dan wasn't something that was that that eat you internally used to describe each other. Then it's not really even as we look at it now. An accurate thing aren't it's it's not even based on honest on a stereotype because it didn't exist so. It too should the is this a lot to over reaching. When it says we must ban all of those related nicknames and symbols. Where I don't believe that it overreaching or do you think that there are different things. Or that you came here and you'd get their culture to current. These are doctors we honor. And the others be higher in. Children. BR builders. I looked pretty good workers. There and there's different pupils can be future. On agriculture. And respectful and proud way. Can't afford it do you look at the Phoenix. Eight who are people. Oh I do believe that you can't use. Jeffrey Cooper and stumbled. In Indian Country. To Atlantic and chill with a better lie on an elaborate. I wouldn't argue should be proud of who they are. There are needed if I have read it and pour our partner and that can be very scary movie actually. Colors. And so I get into there is a way cute. And pat in the tree a collection of people and that can be. The thing to be looked topic or hurting and how are you working so. Chastise her RA. The go to school year. Mean it'll trot which rationing act. Well actually he. For where that what what is OK so. We're talking about specifically you know school mascots the then what about you know that the name of the state Massachusetts or. The names of some towns are bodies of water hills mountains in the streets things like that I mean what what's okay and what isn't okay. For example. And he we are actual people. I do. It it would be intact asking culture and ancient and our nation and. We'll track. Record and trashed our. Curran can get the ruling in incurring and weigh in because it. Between being patient by if people are common to liquor yeah. He. Tried to Indonesian DE Campbell. Earth through instant there. Happening. And we can make it to ignore is that it. Can get an. Peace Leon and Kiki by it'll actually his homeland beaten in two weeks of happy looking at record and positive imagery. I think in fact our high school. Frank didn't occur and we applications and I campaign appreciative. Permanently separate our people co honor and Pratt so there's definitely things that you can take. Al and you can lay and in high school like the oh. In Atlanta addicts to the curriculum people would Amish school and have a better understanding of the image he really well. Am I know that when I was canceled and twenty years ago. Perm we I didn't let me learn eking it out meter American culture at a meeting this actually which are optional high life in which. So if they added they choose that particular. Moment. Allowed me to tell their own story. Instead if somebody else in the images. Think education and or content legislation because initially people who want it to persecution. In all our pool. People if only I think that cool having me to help you achieve appropriate and. Is there a danger when it comes to history that if you start racing things like this because they may be. Words that word chosen. Added at a different period of time or symbols that were chosen a different putters time. That you. Is as an native American culture lose. Your history and and and the rest of us. Lose a part of our history as well. In nineteen you know. Don't think that there is. The fact with. I think it history. Are American important topic and story he probably had carpet people tell our story for. Her and also we are believing you know and I'm. Where all of our history and fruit. His stock in it a lot finished in her spoken query to link which means that story is asking account feature from the where murder yeah. At emirates are grandmothers. Herm calendars current and the having. A little. Yes we can people all held their own story. Her. Firm and look at history books and look and think a document capture portion. Of the troop issue at least through the eyes. You know you're talking about education earlier and what what has. Are maybe you only know about the nip muck nation because that's you know that's who were your nation what have you guys done to. You know and have you appealed to the state government have you appealed to the board of education to incorporate more of that have you guys made efforts to do that. Isn't looking in world but I did spend some time in the north and you may mean little on either or again have chosen few pain in the American imagery in school. Apart. And they all feel happy and we actually you're in school her. Q let me start incorporating. You make history. Or without our partner with community elders. And which and little Trout looking country. He can eat it's elders from all over. In the BQ in there recorded in the health story different tried different cultures and here in the states. So early I personally. And part. Firm introducing little trick in cheer academics. So hopefully catch. Inflation starts to firm. I'm cult out and then they cry changed tack packing beef from the start and achieve its does this really happening I'll drinking country. Is that something that maybe could be I've I don't know if compromise is the right words assay. A high school incorporates more education about native Americans and their curriculum. Is that way they can maybe keep a name like The Chieftains. If they are able to teach more about that or aura or any other a name. And beer and actually any other name play at its standards Harry and at. If we act passed why really why is highly. I get because there weren't watching it and intrigue. Act. In fact it. And it extracts and see people can't. And then tour history or even with the abortion. Pak Arab Arabic toward at least a year earlier probably achieved its peaks they interact. Luring. The imagery. Optional on the British action and where people are attraction in that direction that something coroner. A little. Street Mary Ann track and it's also been huge symbol for the word sheiks. Which were every track has exe they only do so many layers of the Richie. That is unrealistic and in case I eighty act will define how to defend it label. Thinking people. But to but did and this is just prefer firm my. Edification did. And did tribes. Have a chief. And I hope they all over Paul HM can tackle Atlanta. Like eat per. The English picture patient at English word. Yet so it's worth it unfortunately can Soledad is. The English where trap and it like chief clique. To put the fire department so that you guys like at what other folks call. And remove it are you try to learn neat if people. Call sheet and what we call achieve in two different definitions and I don't think that you can really Kerry went over and via. There are there is a team at least one in Massachusetts I think that is named the same items. Is that what would that be who he would that be okay. As are going to be it would without be okay with you. It flew from her account that was derived imagery and. It's the definitions. And you know it should try to keep to travel beater. It's term is a district retool your term political parties. And cultural body with the Indonesian. And she definitely hole deeper and deeper commitment from people they were in mediation. And not necessarily current day in politics. So. Is it doesn't really pay. Learn. Three are. I think each and every every try relief for nations are tractor and that hasn't we're not like. They look at them or he can take pictures from the secretary closer proximity we're different we have her own way of doing things. Team with a lot of time and again we are very similar color very very different and unique and airlines. Cool like act to what little each nation and very unfair. And so. What about something a name like the warriors. And we're not or. Is it is more like a name paired with a an image to was that a major factor. I hit Asian actual you know roll what are we feeling I can elect interpreted. Acute for. My own terms and he something. Can't interpret a cruel things that they lynch and know what it's cops in the current differently. I accidentally back. We will see what happens as this legislation continues to be debated and it's been very interesting I don't know that. It's hard because I don't know that I'm ever gonna American and the same perspective on this the huge deal. So it's it's difficult but it's been interesting to talk about it with you love. Yeah I appreciate earlier on T are. You understand that there is huge capital and ending. IE in word that firm trench channel I could never understand. Differing. Cultural things. The French people era in who in my account and or someone. Cable and you know popular culture or what image sketched their culture. One good point. Actually making me think which I don't change my mind very yeah I talked to do as is this and that's if you were here you see smoke coming up between nine years love. That the I loud it's been great hearing year perspective a little extra sauce. On the debate here in Massachusetts. On native American nick names and symbols with regard to our high school sports teams so. Thank you very much for her being a part of extra sauce. Yes thank you for terms and it's giving me a point. Angering me Q who currently in production and we all like street and tank and female. He's such a wonderful thing in the canary he can really comment. Period. Thank you very much. Of them for sure you gonna play top forty hit Cherokee people terror a nation Cherokee people there Greg did you decide that was not irreverent this is a serious discussion and not the right imagery. It was that she makes some great points as I said she might. Each yes a chance of change in my mind aegs as the slight chance but that's better than it was going into it. That's pretty hard to deal as I mentioned before. Lieutenant Greg minor and anything I'm stubborn I'm old and I'm stubborn jail I'm set in my ways right right I think that maybe from what I've read and heard. In the news of late. One of the most civil discussions on the subject I'd pick I've ever I'm not I'm not trying to pat myself for you now on the back I think gives us that was a very calm discussion she makes some examples she makes some great points and I don't know that. Look when it comes to mascots. Knees probably know. Then there's no. Group of people who want MB. Portrait or tour or would considerate. A compliment to be portrayed as a masked man and lasts you know unless say it was it was done in some right amazingly complementary manner something like laws are a example as the fighting Irish yes or you know. But that but as an Irish guy. I'm not offended by that I I I I don't believe the intent was. Jews. To say that. That Irish guys are. Gals hired. Violent I think the and intent was to say well isn't a strong Christmas card people but you are you referring to yourself how to cook. I Wear glass Irish guys eyeglasses and as a valid mask that is a fact that I cannot buy because if I didn't have classes I'd be a brawler I was reality but. I'm listen interesting food for thought as they say yeah. When it comes to love and their opinions on the bill here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. And that's gonna do for exercise this week thank you very much for listening. And remind here so you don't forget and and miss an episode of extra sauce just subscribe. You can subscribe on iTunes or stature or Google play and we'll be back next week. Would another episode of extra sauce.
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