Should now infamous Wiki-leaker Bradley Manning be the first person executed for treason in this country since the 1940’s? I think you can make a strong case to hang him in public if, as many experts predict, his actions will lead to the deaths of US soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and around the world?
The mood in the country currently could be described as “nutless” when it comes to the death penalty, so I highly doubt Private Manning will ever face that fate, however, it was just 57 years ago, during wartime, when the US was willing to execute the Rosenbergs, civilians who were trying to sell the Atomic Bomb secret to the Russians.
Doubtless there are those who would raise a major stink, if a hanging was in the offing. The Courage to Resist Fund has already raised $90,000 for Manning’s defense. Can you believe there are people in this economy who are actually willing to give their hard earned cash to traitor who handed our secrets over to the World?
If there is a single US death that can be tied to Manning’s treasonous actions, then I think he should be made an example. We have learned that times are different, that 400,000 Government employees have access to the information he shared with Wikileaks, and that the information can travel around the world, to our enemies, in a second. 52 years in prison does seem quite enough for a guy who was willing to sell his fellow soldiers out with the click of a mouse.
If you ask yourself what George Washington would have done, I think you will have the answer.
Absolutely ridiculus. The guy obviously has no concern for the welfare of our citizens or soldiers. What about the fact that he is threatening to release even more information? Calls it the doomsday plan or something like that? Burn the guy. He should definitely be made an example of and for our countries safety wikileaks should be taken off the internet permanently.
Do us all a favor, go back to posting/talking about pop culture and music. Those are two topics that you at least have a clue about.
Our Little Miserable Matt has not gone all ballistic on this subject yet! I am both impressed and confused... Where is Captain Caps?
Long time listener, long time caller, and occasional visitor to a WAAF rodeo.....
Any person that knowingly gives out secrets about our country that could potentially cause harm to a person or the country should be penalized in some way. Thisisn't leaking the secret chocolate chip cookie recipe from your Grandmother.
God bless the USA and the people that keep it free (except for taxes of course).
I hate to do this but I am going to play devil's advocate. If PFC Manning had done this in the private sector, he would be covered under the Whistle Blowers Act. But because the documents were marked Top Secret by the Government, he is now considered a traitor.
Also, did any of the cables have any information as to future troop deployments or battle plans that will be used in the near future? If not, then how exactly is he putting our soldiers lives in danger? How is releasing information that Hillary Clinton ordered our diplomats to spy on other diplomats putting soldiers lives at risk?
I am not trying to say that PFC Manning is right and nothing should happen to him. In fact, not only should he stand trial, I think that his direct supervisor, and those in charge of security of that information should be brought up on serious charges.
I agree with your comment "If there is a single US death that can be tied to Manning’s treasonous actions, then I think he should be made an example"
and that example should be he is found guilty of premeditated murder and gets the full of the law penalty behind this for each death tied to his acts. Spaz spouts off about the govt needs to be involved because people are too stupid to manage things for themselves. To a point i agree and this is one point. This type of information should not be leaked because people are too stupid to understand what it takes to keep freedom " Free " so spaz remember the freedom you preach about everyday is not "free" men and women in uniform pay that debt for YOU and the rest of us on a daily basis. If it takes keeping some information from us to keep the men and women in uniform safe and able to pay this debt for YOu and the rest of us then it is a small contributation on our part.
Thank you to the men and women who give of their lives so i can have mine!!!
Jeff in Japan
hey Greg, Jeff from Japan here... long-time listener, frequent emailer,
my opinion: let the bastard hang. He's only working against the US government and endangering not only the troops, but the people as a whole. If we don't serve an example with him right away, the problem is only going to grow.
In response to Matthew above, I do agree with his point about how it's a little unclear to see how exactly the cables would endanger the troops if there were no future-plans included, but the points about the private versus public sector are moot. Both realms will punish the crime of trading secrets to the enemy (including exposing to the general public/media) to the fullest extent they are allowed. The private sector can only use tort laws to punish monetarily while the government has its own catalogue of criminal laws with criminal punishments in its arsenal.
The diplomatic spying probably won't endanger the troops directly, but it will sure as hell piss off our allies. If everything falls through, we'll become isolated on the world stage. No one will want to play with us anymore. With the economies of China and some South American countries growing as of late, it's a lot to be concerned about.
Regarding Spaz's idiotic arguments on-air, he's infuriating. The man is no martyr; he's a traitor. And about the lawmarkers' "changing the law," I don't see why he's so outraged. Should the Founding Fathers have written in the original Constitution "no man shall use the worldwide electronic information network to share state secrets?" If they had ever anticipated such a problem, they probably would have. It's an ever-changing world, numbnuts. The laws gotta adapt to keep up, so chill, would ya?
Last remark... this guy in no way, shape or form qualifies as "media." He's just an irresponsible loudmouth who's found a way to get himself heard. Media has standards and industry regulations, and above all... integrity. This guy has none.
later , all
As a former Army Ranger I would gladly volunteer to shoot PFC Manning. He is a traitor and has disgraced the US Army. Listener Correction Valerie Plame was outed by Richard Armitage not Scooter Libby or Karl Rove by Liberals hate facts!
If Armitage outed Plame then he is a traitor, and has commited treason.
Scooter Libby was convicted of two counts of perjury, one count of making false statements to federal investigators, and one count of obstruction of justice for not cooperating with the investigation. If you are protecting someone who has committed treason then you have committed treason yourself.
Was Libby lying to investigators and obstructing the investigation to protect anybody? I think so. Why was Cheyney so adamant about giving this traitor a full pardon? Why did Bush commute his 30 month sentence?
(conservatives don't like to talk about this subject because it shows their hypocracy concerning patriotism and national defense. It also brings up questions about the forged "yellow cake" from Africa documents that Bush mentioned in his State of the Union Adress and was a major piece of intellegence used to sell the Iraq War)
Love the show, long time/long time. I called this morning about this, but i was already so heated at Spaz that all i really got out was random mumblings. Anyhow, to clarify a little of what I was saying... to say "the Government" is covering things up by trying to hide these reports is completely misguided and naive. People (lookin at you, Spaz) don't see "the Government" every day and love to make up these James Bond-ish type of spy conspiracy theories to fill in the gaps about what they don't know.
You want to know the real secret? The real work in the intelligence field is done at much LOWER levels than you probably ever thought. PFC's gathering intel on enemy movements and reporting this info to Colonels, happens day in and day out. I don't know personally what info was released (nor do I want to) but you can be pretty sure if you picked one of those reports up, it was written by someone E-5 or lower, full of information gathered in the field by his buddies of the same pay grade.
You (Spaz) like to say everyday that you support the troops... for once, try supporting what our troops do everyday for a living.
P.S... if you still dont understand the damage caused by the realease of military tactics and techniques, look for the book "Killing Pablo" by Mark Bowden (the same author of Blackhawk Down). American intelligence was *incredibly* effective at bringing down drug kingpin Pablo Escobar during his time. But now, the cartels found out how we tracked him, and they know how to avoid getting tracked the same way. Knowledge is power, bud, and we need to keep that power away from our enemies.
Thank you i cant stand the bullshit this system puts out ,my son is in afganastan a marine i also served army you are so dead on its silly keep it up love ya!
He's a TRAITOR, which I say, 52 years in the clink. If anyone dies, off him.
Of course, that'll never happen, as you know, because Al Qadea-Hugging Liberals call terroist acts "Free Speech", like leaking classified documents.
In WWII, this country had a set of nuts, because the Communits didn't infiltrate the House and Senate until the mid to late 1950's.
Remember, Libs want to end the wars, because they support Terrorism, and also HATE America, and the Constitution (why do you think they want to put a warning label on it, or deem it useless in schools? They hate America).
I am sure, in a few hours, Mattikins will try and rape me on this board (Libs support the rights of Rapists, as we all know).
TODAY IS A GREAT DAY, DECEMBER 7'TH, PEARL HARBOR DAY!
I CELEBRATED THIS DAY, BY GOING TO CEMETARIES, AND TIPPING OVER TOMBSTONES OF THOSE WHO SERVED IN WORLD WAR 2. AFTER THAT, I SPAT ON THE AMERICAN FLAGS ON THE GRAVES.
Sorry about that. It was suposed to be from Matt (the all-caps rant about USA). Then again, anyone who frequents here would know an all-caps post is to mock him. :)
There is no IF Richard Armitage did out Valerie Plame. Scooter Libby did not have anything to do with it, Nothing! So you branding him a traitor is wrong. Joe Wilson lied about his so-called fact finding mission. Iraq did attempt to by Yellow cake unranium from Africa. It is a fact Iraq had 500 tons of uranium removed after the invasion, parts for a nuclear bomb buried in the garden of their chief Nuclear scientist. He even wrote a Book called the bomb in my back yard, and wikileaks has proved there were other WMD such as chemical weapons labs. Put down your Koolaid and admitt you are wrong! Like I said Liberals hate Facts.
Nothing is going to happen to manning or the wikileaks site and founder. After all this is the same administration that dropped the voter intimidation charges on the black panthers. they didnt do anything about nicky diaz, the illegal who admitted to stealing an americans social security number and derailed a politcal campaign. But School bake sales, toys in happy meals, craigs list ads, The American flag, and any mention of "God" are lined up in their sights...
Treason is treason. Armitage, a former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under Reagan and a member of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), committed treason when he outed Plame.
Libby was convicted of obstructing justice, and if you protect a traitor then you are a traitor (like when Bush said if you harbor a terrorist you are a terrorist). He committed treason by protecting someone who committed treason.
Joe Wilson did not lie. The IAEA declared the documents from Niger forgeries (and very poor ones too).
The 500 tons of yellow cake at Tuwaitha site WERE KNOWN ABOUT FOR YEARS AND WERE NOT THE WMD THAT WE WENT IN FOR. The ISG (Iraq Study Group set up by Bush to find the WMD) declared that the yellow cake at Tuwaitha was not the WMD we were sent in for.
As far as the Wikileaks goes it does mention chemical and biological weapons. The only problem is that the weapons mentioned are not the stockpiles of mushroom cloud inducing WMD that we went to war for. The "chemical weapons lab" discovered in a house in Falluja, or the barrel of mustard gas were not the stockpiles that of WMD that we went to war for 8 years ago.
How about you try and prove some of your facts? Why don't you start with your fact about Joe Wilson and the Niger story? I'll even help.
Here is a link:
How about the 500 Tons of yellow cake at Tuwaitha? Here is a link for you:
I tried to find a link on Foxnews.com about the first Wikileaks document dump and how it showed that we found massive stockpiles of chemical and nuclear weapons capable of creating a mushroom cloud that we went to war for in 2003, but there was nothing listed.
Why don’t you give me that link, because I would really like to read it.
You could do that, or maybe you can put down the kool-aid you have been drinking because the facts I listed just proved you were wrong.
Of COURSE nothing will happen to the WikiLeaks founder, because Liberals support terrorism, and HATE AMERICA, and EVERYTHING it stands for. They are friends with Osama Bin Laden, and backed their own killer that drowned a woman in a lake.
Were you listening to the show about the WMD discoveries? Greg wasn't sure about it, because nobody posted anything about it, yet SOLDIERS WHO WERE SERVING THERE, called in, to VERIFY IT WAS ALL TRUE, that WMD'S WERE FOUND.
Again, Libby-Libs keeping it all hush-hush, because they love terrorism. When found, guess who was in control over the Hous and Senate? LIBS!
WTF ? If you sincerely think the Rosenberg family deserved what happened, eventhough it's taught in many universities throughout the world that they were just scapegoat to feed the RED SCARE, then I can hardly realize the amount of B.S. propaganda you'veeaten from FOX NEWS and such...
It is your claim. Prove it. Provide a link to an actual news site or to the actual wikileaks documents. The STOCKPILES of chemical and nuclear weapons that are capable of producing mushroom clouds, the ones we went to war for, were never found.
Your postings at the end of the last topic prove that you are a worthless troll that can not back up any claims that you make. Saying that the wmd reported in the initial wikileaks document dump validate the war in Iraq, is like when I proved that you were a liar and idiot with the "22 vice presidents", and then you tried to claim that you were correct and I provided info to back you up. The truth is I proved you are not only a liar, you are also a pathetic fraud.
Why don't you do some research into the Iraq Survey Group (ISG)
You want to find out do your own research, for me "Life Beckons"
The act of treason was committed when the security of the information was breached. The facilitation of information was furthered by wiki. The death of a soldier or Marine isn't necessary to justify the penalty of death. The PFC should be executed for his actions, and the rapist at wiki should be imprisoned for life, if not executed as well. We elect, in a democracy, individuals to lead us. Whether we like them or not. Whether they received our vote, or not. In doing so, they are privileged to certain information. The world, or the American public, doesn't need "full access" to this information. It is part of the blanket of freedom we enjoy. Young men and women put their lives on the line every day. We don't need to know every little detail. Some of that information also keeps those troops out of harms way. Now we have lost control, and need to tighten the ship back up.
As for your little friend Tony. Fortunately, he's able to run his mouth like he does because unselfish men and women served to protect this right. Keep running your mouth little man. Someone out there is getting shot out so you can.
Here is your link your requested about Joe Wilson Lying. http://www.slate.com/id/2103795/ and http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169424/posts and http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/6/1/100750.shtml Once again you are WRONG! Scooter Libby did not protect Richard Armitage therefore he is not a traitor. Don't you find it interesting that the prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald did not prosecute Richard Armitage ( Armitage admitted he did it prior to the investigation)There was no need to investigate Rove or Libby. He was on a witch hunt for Rove and Libby just like you looney lefties. The 500 tons of yellow cake was going to be turned into a nuclear weapon http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/2/220331.shtml That why Saddams cheif nuclear scientist had nuclear bomb making material buried in his garden The WMD mushroom cloud you were looking for! A FACT I NOTICE YOU DID NOT DISPUTE. And the other WMD in IRAQ http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/us_did_find_iraq_wmd_AYiLgNbw7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM note the term US troops find stockpiles for YEARS http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html and http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=24352 Again you are ignoring the FACTS put down your kool-aid man-up and admit your WRONG!
How can I back up WHAT PLAYED ON-AIR, and has been REPEATED?
You, and the Libs HATE our soldiers. The same people that spit on them when they come back from war (to save your worthless ass).
PS: Frank, THANK YOU! FTW!!
Oh, I am back with the MWCC Waste. Got my source right here, the Spring Career Focus flier, Spring 2011.
I was off a little, I'll admit. A source mentioned there's 23 top psoitions, when in fact, there's 20. He also failed to point out the list includes Board of Triustees, which brings the legit job count to 7. I assume this guy is a far right nutjob, and like Libs, can't stand them.
Here they are, good and wasteful, FTW:
TOP POSITIONS (Original positions):
Danial M. Esquino, President
Ann S. McDonnald, Vice President
Dianne Ruksnaitis, HR/Affirmitive Action Director
TOP POSITIONS (Buddy-Buddy Waste, Post-Deval):
Dianne Ruksnaitis, Vice President Role (Extra coin)
Sharyn A. Rice, Senior VP, Advancement, External Affairs
Robin Duncan, VP, Marketing & Communication
Dr. Melissa Fama, VP, Academic Affairs
Jacqueline E. Feldman, VP, Lifelong Learning, & Workforce Development
Patricia Gregson, VP, Access & Transition Programs
Robert LaBonte, VP, Finance & Administration
Note Dianne was listed twice, because the VP position is wasteful.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES (Original):
James Garrison, Chair
Tina M. Sbrega, Vice Chair
Mark P. Hawke, Secretary
Christina Lajole, Student Trustee
BOARD OF TRUSTEES (Waste, Post-Deval):
Dr. Francis G. Couvares
Sheila M. Daly
Scott B. Howard
Yvonne W. Hunter
Raymond F. LaFond
There we have it. Source was off, paper with the 20 positions here.
I read through those articles that you linked to and most of them proved my point.
The first three links you list only talk about WHO sent Joe Wilson to Niger. They never question the fact that the documents cited from Niger were poor forgeries:
"The bogus document produced by an Italian con man in October 2002, which has caused such embarrassment, was therefore more like a forgery than a fake: It was a fabricated version of a true bill....
the Bush administration, which typically managed to flourish the only allegation made about Niger that had been faked"
This is a diversion from the topic of treason.
Plame was a covert CIA agent who was exposed. Someone committed treason by exposing her. Libby obstructed justice and commited perjury during the investigation. It seem to me that he was protecting someone who had committed treason, and therefore has committed treason himself. If Armitage did it then he committed treason and Libby was protecting him.
The Iraqi scientist had parts of a centrifuge in his garden not a complete centrifuge. Rebuilding Iraq's nuclear capabilities was not going to be an overnight process that was done in someone's garden. That is the reason the UN inspectors were there since 1991. Saddam was not cooperating 100% with the inspectors, but the search after the invasion proved that Iraq did not have an ongoing nuclear or chemical weapons program that was capable of creating a mushroom cloud. We did not go into Iraq because Saddam "might" have had a nuclear or chemical weapon capability. We went into Iraq because he definitly had nuclear and chemical WMD, which proved to be wrong.
And the other WMD in Iraq:
"The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s."
"Offering the OFFICIAL administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.
"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."
"documents released by the WikiLeaks Web site revealed that SMALL amounts of chemical weapons were found in Iraq and continued to surface for years after the 2003 US invasion"
The FACT is that we NEVER found the STOCKPILES of WMD that we went to war for. Bush even admitted this FACT.
I think you are the one that has to "man-up" and accept the fact that you have been lied to all these years, and you are the one who has been drinking the kool-aid for years. Saying that the wikileaks docs, or Tuwaitha or any of that junk validates the Iraq War proves that you are drinking the kool-aid.
You are a fraud. You know it. I know it. Everyone that posts here knows it.
You proved it with your last posts. You can not do anything about it now.
I don't know you. You don't know me.
Your baseless accustaions are just a bunch of bullshit.
Anyone can do that.
You got anything better?
You are a fraud. You know it. I know it. Everyone that posts here knows it.
You know who says stuff like that? DESPERATE PEOPLE THAT LOSE DEBATES!
You have NO COMEBACK!
Josh = FAIL
Having been in the Military - U.S. Army (Echo-72) Telecommunications, no less! I am compelled to comment on Bradley Manning's actions and say that, what Manning did was not only TREASONOUS it was far more dangerous than obese children being defined as a “National Security Threat.” The most ridiculous statement made by First Lady Mrs. Obama (i.e. referring said outrageous comment discussed this morning on the Hillman show.)
What she should have said is that; obesity would disqualify an enlistee from being accepted into Military service, as there are physical/mental stability requirements that must be met before you can enter the Armed Forces. But I digress…
I don't care what sad rationalization Manning came to (i.e. being teased about being a homosexual) in order to publish Top Secret documents! There is absolutely NO REASON to expose Military documents of any kind, in any medium!
Consider this: When you sign up to become a soldier, you literally sign away your Constitutional rights, becoming the property of the United States Military. This means you do not have the right to sit online and write blogs, or post on any of the countless forums that are out there (such as Facebook, Twitter, Myspace etc..) I mean, when you write home, you are not supposed to even tell family members the specifics of your duties. While in training, such as Boot-Camp, you don’t even have the right to read a news paper. You do not have the right to fraternize with your fellow soldiers.
What Manning did was more than just an (Oops! I leaked out some information I probably shouldn’t have!) No! No! He purposefully published Top Secret documents. In addition, he was sitting at his computer instant messaging ZJ.
Here this guy was using an instant messenger typing who knows what, to complete strangers! For all he knew, it could have been our enemies trying pry intelligence out of him! The bottom line is - you have no rights whatsoever! And, obviously, for good reasons!
And dare we forget: When you join the Armed Forces there this little process you go through called “The oath of enlistment into the United States Armed Forces.” It reads as follows: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
It seems to me that Manning was and is incapable of upholding any oath, or allegiance be it in high regard or otherwise. The reason I mention this is because of the fact that, at the end of the enlistment oath, if you will note, it reads: “So help me God.” Now, there has been some controversy where that line is concerned. Nonetheless, it is currently a part of the oath and if Manning had a problem with using the word “God” way back in grade school, he must have had an issue with it when he gave his oath on enlistment day!
Perhaps he crossed his fingers throughout the entire recitation? Merely trying to add a little comic relief…
According to GAWKER, “one of the people he communicated with online was a female whose username was “ZJ” from February to August 2009. Manning and ZJ had about 12 instant message conversations. During that time, ZJ never suspected that Manning was “trans” or gay. ZJ said “He introduced himself as 'Brad' and male. I thought he was just a regular guy. Maybe Manning was attracted by the topics ZJ discussed—atheism, gay rights, computer science/programming—but it seems likely his identification with ZJ ran deeper than that. He told me he enjoyed my more personal material that I did, ZJ said. Manning never indicated he was planning a leak.”
Atheism and struggling with his gender identity; according to logs published by Boing Boing. He worries, about how on earth I’m going to transition and writes:
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard...
(1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
(1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
Manning was an Intelligence Specialist. Much like my duties, he dealt with highly classified materials. I have not seen yet seen what he “leaked” out, but I can tell you from my own experience, the duties I was responsible for went hand in hand with the oath I took the day I was enlisted! And when I held my hand to my heart and recited that oath, I meant it!
As I said, what Manning did was not only treasonous - it was an act of terrorism; more so than some of the silly situations I’ve heard called “an act of terrorism.” He didn’t just download the “Anarchist Cookbook!” He spit on our Military’s oath!
He put our Country in harm’s way by divulging highly classified secrets to those who would and could use such against us and may very well do so, depending on the material he “leaked” out! And he disgraced our Country by using the DADT solution that allows all who want to serve their Country do so without brining sexual preferences into a place where it doesn’t belong!
Yet another departure: Least I forget to explain why I keep placing quotes around the work “LEAKED” because the word is not strong enough to express the damage Manning did; this hideous act of publishing highly classified materials!
Our media and those who would allow such materials be “leaked-out” reminds of the way they twist their verbiage when President Clinton got caught with “little miss blue dress.”
They, the media called the “Clinton-Monica Lewinsky's faux pas a” Crisis.” Yet when Reagan did his thing it was called “The Iran/Contra Affair!” Hm! Um! What
Addendum: In my research surrounding Manning’s exposure of Military documents; I learned that, when Manning was in grade school, he refused to say “under God” when the class recited the Pledge of Allegiance. Obviously, Manning had issues long before he entered the Military.
There is one more divagation I must include: I do find one fault with either Bradley Manning’s Army Recruiter or whoever it was who handled his Psychological tests. Now, I mean no prejudice here where his homosexuality is concerned however, it was obvious, prior to his entrance into the Army that he had some serious psychological issues that should have been taken into consideration!
It was well known, as far back as Junior High school that Bradley Manning had problems with those who disagreed with his sexual preferences…
Before you are allowed entrance into the service, you must go through many rigorous tests. I mean, let’s face it, they (the Armed Forces) are determining whether or not you are fit for Military service, basically, if you are capable to serve you Country on many levels and, more importantly, if you are fit for war!
These evaluations include your physical condition (an exam that is very detailed to ensure that you are in the best possible shape.) Vocational testing that determines which jobs are best suited for a soldier both intellectually and geared toward your personality.
Should Bradley Manning be executed for his treasonous act? Though I am not a proponent of the death penalty, in this case, I do believe that Bradley Manning should be punished to the full extent of Military law!
Definition: Treason is an act of disloyalty or betrayal of trust to your own government. Examples of treason include assassination of a state figure, fighting against your own nation in a war, assisting enemy combatants, or passing vital government information to the enemy.
Being a God fearing Christian, such a decision of execution is a very difficult one for me personally because, I believe “Judge not lease ye be judged.” However, having been in the Military, having held (still hold) my oath to this day, as a proud Veteran of the United States Army, I cannot forgive Bradley Manning for what he has done to our Country. It is not longer his!
Perhaps that should be his punishment. As in the days of old cast him out of the Country walls! Instead of death, force him to become an ex-patriot. As in the words of Benjamin Franklin speaking of Benedict Arnold: Judas sold only one man, Arnold three millions.
You are WRONG JOE WILSON DID LIE “Multiple African nations have since reported attempts from the Iraqi regime to seek uranium. Last week the British investigation into the Niger case specifically led the investigators to reiterate the British position (from which they had never waivered) - Saddam DID try to buy uranium from Niger. The 9/11 report casts significant doubt over ALL of Wilson's "findings" in Niger”. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169424/posts The forgeries are of the Original report. “Now turn to the front page of the June 28 Financial Times for a report from the paper's national security correspondent, Mark Huband. He describes a strong consensus among European intelligence services that between 1999 and 2001 Niger was engaged in illicit negotiations over the export of its "yellow cake" uranium ore with North Korea, Libya, Iraq, Iran, and China. The British intelligence report on this matter, once cited by President Bush, has never been disowned or withdrawn by its authors. The bogus document produced by an Italian con man in October 2002, which has caused such embarrassment, was therefore more like a forgery than a fake: It was a fabricated version of a true bill”. “Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report. The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address”. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html All of my citations are correct and indisputable. Richard Armitage out Valerie Plame prior to Fitzgerald’s Investigation. ( FACT) There was no reason to question Scooter Libby and no evidence Libby tried to protect Armitage only your baseless assertions of what you WANT to believe. The WMD you said were not there try citing the entire paragraph “The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these munitions”. And “Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist." You are completely ignoring Sadam Nuclear weapons program “The physicist tapped by Saddam to run his centrifuge program says that after the first Gulf War, the program was largely dismantled. But it wasn't destroyed. In fact, according to what he wrote in his 2004 book, "The Bomb in My Garden," Dr. Mahdi Obeidi told U.S. interrogators: "Saddam kept funding the IAEC [Iraq Atomic Energy Commission] from 1991 ... until the war in 2003." "I was developing the centrifuge for the weapons" right through 1997, he revealed. And after that, Dr. Obeidi said, Saddam ordered him under penalty of death to keep the technology available to resume Iraq's nuke program at a moment's notice. Dr. Obeidi said he buried "the full set of blueprints, designs - everything to restart the centrifuge program - along with some critical components of the centrifuge" under the garden of his Baghdad home. "I had to maintain the program to the bitter end," he explained. All the while the Iraqi physicist was aware that he held the key to Saddam's continuing nuclear ambitions. "The centrifuge is the single most dangerous piece of nuclear technology," Dr. Obeidi said in his book. "With advances in centrifuge technology, it is now possible to conceal a uranium enrichment program inside a single warehouse”. (FACT) Combine that with 500tons of uranium you get multiple mushroom clouds. When they have a bomb like North Korea it’s too late. You clearly did not read this: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=24352 “In virtually every case -- chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles -- the United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors. The Iraq Survey Group, ISG, whose intelligence analysts are managed by Charles Duelfer, a former State Department official and deputy chief of the U.N.-led arms-inspection teams, has found "hundreds of cases of activities that were prohibited" under U.N. Security Council resolutions, a senior administration official tells Insight. “Both Duelfer and his predecessor, David Kay, reported to Congress that the evidence they had found on the ground in Iraq showed Saddam's regime was in "material violation" of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the last of 17 resolutions that promised "serious consequences" if Iraq did not make a complete disclosure of its weapons programs and dismantle them in a verifiable manner. The United States cited Iraq's refusal to comply with these demands as one justification for going to war. Both Duelfer and Kay found Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses with equipment that was suitable to continuing its prohibited chemical- and biological-weapons [BW] programs," the official said. "They found a prison laboratory where we suspect they tested biological weapons on human subjects." They found equipment for "uranium-enrichment centrifuges" whose only plausible use was as part of a clandestine nuclear-weapons program. In all these cases, "Iraqi scientists had been told before the war not to declare their activities to the U.N. inspectors," the official said” And article goes on and on about weapons and weapon programs. These facts are indisputable you are simple ignoring the truth. I have proven you are wrong on every count. Man-up and put down the Kool-Aid.
Is Bradley Manning really Matt??? Is that why he hasn't commented in forever? Thank God.
The topic is treason, and I only brought up Plame to show the hypocracy of people that think this is treason, but it was not treason when Plame was outed. Treason is Treason. It does not matter what political party gains from the treason. It seems to me that you support the treason that was committed when Plame was outed, but are against the treason in this case.
Armitage is like Manning. He committed treason when he revealed Plame to Novak.
Novak is like Assange. He committed treason when he published classified info.
Libby is like the supporters of Manning and Assange. He committed treason by obstructing an investigation into treason. If you protect someone who commits treason then you have committed treason yourself.
The first link you posted was:
This article has two main points to make:
1. WHO sent Wilson to Africa. This doesn't matter because it is not who sent him, but what he found.
2. The British government stands by it's claims that Saddam did try to obtain yellow cake from Africa.
Just a few lines later you post:
"The British intelligence report on this matter, once cited by President Bush, has never been disowned or withdrawn by its authors. The bogus document produced by an Italian con man in October 2002, which has caused such embarrassment, was therefore more like a forgery than a fake: It was a fabricated version of a true bill"
You are saying that the British government stands by bogus documents. Why should we believe them if we know they are forged.
The next link you list is:
"Yesterday's report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar intelligence that remains an OPEN QUESTION. Much of the rest of the intelligence suggesting a buildup of weapons of mass destruction was UNFOUNDED, the report said."
Wilson went to Niger in Feb 2002, Bush's State of the Union was in Jan 2003, this article is from July 2004, and it is still and OPEN QUESTION!!
"Administration officials told columnist Robert D. Novak then that Wilson, a partisan critic of Bush's foreign policy, was sent to Niger at the suggestion of Plame, who worked in the nonproliferation unit at CIA. The disclosure of Plame's identity, which was classified, led to an investigation into who leaked her name."
Sounds like the Administration outed Plame, and this says her identity was classified.
"Still, it was the CIA that bore the brunt of the criticism of the Niger intelligence. The panel found that the CIA has not fully investigated possible efforts by Iraq to buy uranium in Niger to this day"
July 2004 and still has not investigated.
"The agency did not examine forged documents that have been widely cited as a reason to dismiss the purported effort by Iraq until months after it obtained them. The panel said it still has "not published an assessment to clarify or correct its position on whether or not Iraq was trying to purchase uranium from Africa.""
July 2004 and the posisiton still has not been corrected or clarified. That was presented as a fact in the 2003 State of the Union.
The next link is:
This article makes many references to many "un-named officials" and to the ISG. It also lists some of the WMD that you believe justify the war. Some of the WMD listed are “approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent” We did not go to war over 500 weapons munitions with DEGRADED MUSTARD OR SARIN AGENT.
You do list some things that are true. The ISG did find weapons and programs that Saddam concealed for years, and hundreds of cases of prohibited activities. They also showed that Saddam was in violation of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441.
These are good points, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE REASON WE WENT TO WAR.
We went to war because Saddam had stockpiles of nuclear and chemicalbiological weapons that could create mushroom clouds.
The final report from the ISG proves that this was not true.
Here is the link to the CIA website showing Duelfer Report from the ISG
Iraq Survey Group (ISG) discovered further evidence of the maturity and significance of the pre-1991 Iraqi Nuclear Program but found that Iraq’s ability to reconstitute a nuclear weapons program progressively decayed after that date.
Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program.
Although Saddam clearly assigned a high value to the nuclear progress and talent that had been developed up to the 1991 war, the program ended and the intellectual capital decayed in the succeeding years.
Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort when sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable.
While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991.
There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.
In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes.
Indeed, from the mid-1990s, despite evidence of continuing interest in nuclear and chemical weapons, there appears to be a complete absence of discussion or even interest in BW at the Presidential level.
After the ISG issued the Duelfer Report Bush created the Iraq Intellegence Committee (IIC) to investigate the intelegence failures that led up to the war.
The following link is to the full report from the IIC. There are sections that cover the yellowcake from Niger story, Curveball, Chalabi, aluminum tubes, and just about every other piece of intellegence that was used to sell the war in Iraq.
"The president also told Walters he has no regrets about his administration's decision to wage war in Iraq, despite inspectors' failure to find any weapons of mass destruction in the country -- the chief rationale for the March 2003 invasion and toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime.
The White House acknowledged Wednesday that there is no longer an active search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. The final report from chief U.S. weapons inspector Charles Duelfer, due out next month, has concluded that "the former regime had no formal written strategy or plan for the revival of WMD."
The Bush administration does not hold out hopes that any weapons will ever be found."
It is now almost 8 years after the invasion and we still have not found the stockpiles of WMD that the Bush administration said was there. If you believe the things you listed are justification of the war in Iraq then it is prima facie evidence that you are drinking the kool-aid.
Oh, and THANKS FOR SERVING.
The Great Gazoo
Interesting topic here but i see quite a few flaws.One of the biggest flaws is people wanting to charge Julian Assange with treason LMAO.Julian Assange is not an American citizen.Only an American citizen can be charged with treason.Heres another goody.How many laws have been passed that violate constitutional law.It seems to me that passing a law that violates constitutional law is in itself an act of treason.How many politicians have you seen recently being charged with treason? NONE.How many laws have been passed in the last 10 years that make a mockery of constitutional law and go against constitutional law?It seems to me that there should be a whole lot of cases of treason heading to court,i dont see or hear of any.The constitution is the supreme law of the land.Any law passed that overshadows constitutional law is in fact not a law.And it is the duty of every citizen to disregard said laws.Time to put the koolaid down people and reach for the maxwell house.
Julian Asshole is upset that his police record was....leaked!
Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
The Great Gazoo
Most likely and,when you really think about it.This whole thing is just another false flag event.You know and i know that the feds are dying to get their greedy little corrupt hands into internet censoring.Just as they have their greedy little corrupt hands into everything else,why should the internet be any different.The internet is the only media left where you can find the truth.Think about it.
The Great Gazoo
"Is Bradley Manning really Matt??? Is that why he hasn’t commented in forever? Thank God".
Jason i think matt locked himself out of his mommys basement.
The Great Gazoo,
This news just broke:
FCC Approves Plan to Regulate Internet
Published December 21, 2010
Here is some useless trivia:
John Wayne's real name was Marion Morrison
The Great Gazoo
Thank you Josh.
Now to deviate for a second from the topic at hand.A little fuel must be added to the fire that burns in the real patriotic American heart.How many people here have read material released by the the Joint Terrorism Task Force and the Texas Department of Public Safety Criminal Law Enforcement?According to these two agencies just about every American citizen is classified as a potential domestic terrorist.Basically what it comes down to according to the above agencies is if you are American and alive and breathing you are a terrorist.Read it and weep fellow Americans for our country is turning to shit.
By encouraging Americans to “report suspicious activity” that includes such behavior, the feds are knowingly on a mission to chill political dissent, by making people afraid to exercise their constitutional rights in the fear that their neighbors will turn them in to the authorities unless they rigidly control their behavior and don’t risk even patently benign activities being misconstrued.
The following is a list of behaviors, actions or interests that the federal government, via centralized threat fusion centers that collate such information, considers to be potential signs of terrorism under the MIAC Report.
- Displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties
- Supporting Congressman Ron Paul
- Supporting former presidential candidate Chuck Baldwin
- Supporting former Congressman Bob Barr
- Opposing the implementation of a North American Union
- Owning gold bullion
- Displaying historical U.S. flags
- Opposing abortion
- Talking about the documentary Zeitgeist
According to an earlier document issued by the Joint Terrorism Task Force (page 1 – page 2), the following behaviors, actions or interests are also signs of terrorism.
- Being interested in animal rights
- Being a “lone individual”
- Making numerous references to the U.S. Constitution
- Defending the U.S. Constitution
- Claiming driving is a right, not a privilege
- Refusing to identify yourself to an authority figure
- Attempting to monitor the actions of police
- Being bald
Under the terms of a A Texas Department of Public Safety Criminal Law Enforcement pamphlet, the following behaviors, actions or interests are also signs of terrorism.
- Being a “nice guy”
- Wearing Levi jeans
- Communicating predominantly by cell phone, email or text message
- Looking “normal” in appearance
- Renting a car
- Staying in a hotel or apartment
- Renting a storage facility
- Using cash to make large purchases
- Using pre-paid cellphones or hand-held radios
- Owning large amounts of medicines, alcohol, or baby formula
- Gaining support for a cause by holding meetings, public rallies, or demonstrations
- Gaining support for a cause by using websites, posters, leaflets, or underground press publications
- Possessing a photo-copy of your drivers license, passport, social security card or birth certificate
- Possessing or purchasing GPS technology
- Walking, biking or driving near “potential targets”
- Taking photographs of “potential targets,” including bridges, power plants or government buildings
Under the terms of a Virginia training manual used to help state employees recognize terrorists, the following behaviors, actions or interests are also signs of terrorism.
- Being a property-rights activist
- Trying to influence government or social policy
- Undermining confidence in the government
- Using a sketch pad, camera, map, binoculars or scuba equipment
Do you fit into any of these categories? Do you wear Levi jeans, act like a “nice guy,” look “normal” or support Ron Paul? Maybe you’re a complete asshole, hate Ron Paul, look like a complete freak of nature, and only ever wear Lee jeans – but wait – you like scuba diving! Oh no, you’re a terrorist. Your name will be in a threat fusion database somewhere, and under the new definition of what constitutes a terrorist, which federal agencies are working under and promoting, your neighbor will be acting perfectly reasonably when they inform on you to the authorities because you rented a hotel room, used a large amount of cash, or possess a significant amount of alcohol.
Here's something we both can agree upon:
LEAVE THE INTERNET ALONE, FCC!
The Great Gazoo
Wishful thinking George but i think its already to late.From here on its going to be downhill for the internet.Thats what big brother wants.They'll keep pushing and cramming laws and regulations down our throats until people start snapping.Then that will be the reason for them to sign in marshal law,unless of course N and S korea go at it before hand.Nows the time to set aside the petty differences,of left ,right,republican,democrat.Left,right it doesnt matter,republican,democrat,both parties have the same agenda.Theyre both one side of a coin.The only difference that matters now is between good and evil.American citizen or fascist,communist corrupt,evil pieces of garbage running the country.Stick together people,sooner or later theres going to come the day when all you have is the guy next to you to count on.
I just added your blog site to my blogroll, I pray you would give some thought to doing the same.
Hate to say it Great Gazoo, but you're probably right.
Nothing against you.
The Great Gazoo
Thanks George.I have nothing against anybody here.The way i see it every time people start arguing over politics,the people are doing exactly what the politicians want them to do.Divide the people into little groups.Conquer or brainwash or eliminate the little groups one at a time.The old military tactic,divide and conquer while consolidating your own forces.look at all the new fed agencies that sprouted up in the last 10 years.Especially the fusion centers which consolidate information,on you and me.Dont be sheep people,look up the word normalcy bias.Sit down watch tv,everything is alright,the government will take care of you,nothing is going on.Trust us,were here to protect you.LMAO.But excuse us if we classify you as a domestic terrorist for flying an historic american flag or you rent a car.Its for your own protection.I wonder if they have showers at the fema camps?
Baby name meaning and origin for Bradley...
Description for the baby name Bradley, the origins of the name and its meaning...
Michael the Conservative
Hilldawg! This is Michael the Conservative, formerly of the Socialist State of Massachusetts, now breathing the free air in the Great State of Kentucky!
I see the usual suspects are still here, living in their moms' basements, rooting for the bad guys and hating America, just like they always do. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
What I find interesting is that the YoMama administration has done a 180 degree about-face on the WikiLeaks scandal, over time. They started out pretending to be indifferent, not really taking any particular position on the matter. They neither denounced Manning or Assange very strongly, nor did they take any real action against the website or its flamboyant publisher. That's because all Assange was attacking was US soldiers and our war effort, a position that YoMama obviously endorses.
It was not until successive waves of WikiLeaks document dumps started revealing cables that were actually embarrassing to the YoMama administration that President YoMama suddenly took an interest and denounced the website and Assange. Even then, his statements have been limp-wristed and meaningless.
If your goal is to protect the national security of this country, then your logical course of action would be to shut down the WikiLeaks site under existing espionage laws, arrest Assange and bring him to a speedy trial, all the while court-martialing Manning for treason. It doesn't look like any of those things are happening.
If your goal is to weaken and undermine the US at every turn -- economically, militarily and politically -- then you welcome Assange's antics and do what you can to encourage his website without appearing directly to do so. In other words, you pretend to be powerless to stop him, while privately cheering him on, which is precisely what YoMama did. When WikiLeaks was merely risking the lives of American soldiers, YoMama sat back and pretended to be impotent, that his hands were tied, and after all what could a weak country like America do to a big powerful Internet website anyway, right? When the publications started to affect YoMama personally, that's when he suddenly took "action," which in YoMama's case means he held a press conference and reminded everyone what a hateful country America is.
I wonder, what would it take for screw-ups like Catty Matty and Osh-kosh B'Josh to defend America's national self-interests and quit cheering for the bad guys? 9/11 didn't do it. Ft Hood didn't do it. I doubt if Venezuela launched one of its new missiles at an American city and it went up in a mushroom cloud, that they would change their tune one bit. That's what mental illness does to a person. It renders them unable to adapt to reality, to learn from their mistakes, or to form rational opinions about the world around them. When (not if) there's another Islamic terrorist attack on US soil, and this time many thousands of innocent people are killed, you can count on Matt and Josh and the rest of the "HATE AMERICA" crowd to lecture us all about how it's really our own fault.
The rest of us will be too busy defending the country with our lives, like every American should be doing. What morons like Matty and Josh will never understand (because it requires an IQ higher than 75), is that they're only allowed to express their hateful opinions precisely because their betters go through hell every single day to keep us safe from actual bad guys who would kill every one of us if given half a chance. Matty and Joshy and the rest of those fruitloops wouldn't get to criticize these other countries they admire so much, if they actually lived there. The only reason they CAN shoot their mouths off freely and spew the garbage that they do is BECAUSE this is America. And they're not even bright enough to appreciate it.
First off the war in Iraq doesn't defend our freedom because we invaded it and occupied it based on LIES, Deception and an evil republican administration. Iraq never had the technology or capability to pose a threat to the United States nor were they stupid enough to try. The troops are running a fools errand because Iraqi people didn't want to be invaded as there is plenty of evidence to prove my case (google it). However, with Wikileaks spilling the dishonorable actions of our military is nothing new and not treasonous. Lets face it after all the lies Bush and his Admnistration and the republicans were proven as they continued to change the reasons why we invaded Iraq with more lies and so a campaign of lies to cover up is treasonous and violated UN rules of engagement. Pre-emptive war based on lies is CRIMINAL more so than the private and Assange are accused of is far worse than the actions of what really goes on over there. Hate my opinion or not, none of this would have never happened, thousands of our troops that died because if the invasion, thousands more Iraqi innocents died and billions in costs wouldn't be a reality if it weren't for the treasonous actions of the Bush Administration and the republicans that backed him. Those policy makers are the ones who should be exeucuted not a patsy private.
Where have you been?
Usully when I show all the people here how dumb you are you only disappear for a month or so. I must have really made you feel bad last time. I am sorry about that. I promise from now on that I will no longer support my arguments with facts, figures, quotes, links, or even reality.
From now on I will argue with you using your tactics. Those tactics are name calling, lying, baseless "facts", opinion websites, ignorance, heresay, and libel.
Also, you can feel free to continue argue with the imaginary liberal that lives in your head. He is the one that makes statements that I never posted, has opinions that I never had, has feelings I never felt, and hates America.
I stand by everything I have posted here. I stand by everything that I have previously posted in the archives.
THOUGHT YOU GOT RID OF ME, HUH?
I WAS WITH OBAMA ON VACATION, AND I DEFACED THE USS ARIZONA MONUMENT, SPRAYING "YOU DESERVED THIS" ALL OVER THE BRIDGE. THAT, AND "AL QADEA #1".
YOU ALL HATE DEVAL AND OBAMA, BECAUSE YOU'RE RACISTS! THERE'S NO OTHER REASON!
TO THE PUSSY THAT POSTS UNDER MY NAME, EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT ME:
HOW MANY TIMESS DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU, YOU WILL NEVER GET RID OF ME, AND I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE PISSED, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THAT.
AS FOR WIKI-LEAKS, BRADLEY MANNING IS A HERO, AND SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR WHAT HE DID. I ONLY WISH IS THAT THESE LEAKS OCCURED MUCH EARLIER, SO THAT MAYBE THE LIES AND DISTORTIONS THAT THE USELESS WAR IN A IRAQ WERE BASED ON, COULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED
TO THE PUSSY THAT POSTS UNDER MY NAME, PRETENDING TO BE ME:
STOP PRETENDING TO BE ME. I KNOW YOU PLEASURE YOURSELF TRYING TO BE THE BIGGEST LIBERAL ON THE BLOGS.
AT LEAST YOU THINK THE RIGHT WAY. IRAQ WAS A WASTE OF TIME, AND AFGHANISTAN IS AS WELL.
WE ALL REMEMBER THAT WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 IS BECAUSE OF US BULLYING OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND, SO THAT ATTACK IS WELL DESERVED.
BY THE WAY, THERE'S 300 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, SO 3,000 THAT DIED THAT DAY MEAN NOTHING AT ALL. JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET.
INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS ON THIS THREAD:
MICHAEL THE OTHER GUTLESS CONSERVATIVE - A.K.A - THE HUMAN COCKROACH HIMSELF, CRAWLED OUT OF HIS CREVICE, TO PERMEATE THIS BLOG WITH HIS INSANE RAMBLINGS. ON A POSITIVE NOTE HOWEVER, IT APPEARS THAT HE HAS FINALLY DONE US ALL A FAVOR AND MOVED... FAR, FAR AWAY
THANK HEAVEN FOR SMALL FAVORS, ALTHOUGH I WOULD CHARACTERIZE THAT PIECE OF VERMIN MOVING, AS A HUGE FAVOR!!!
ALSO, WE MUST NOW ADD "THE GREAT GAZOO", TO THE "OH, SO ORIGINAL", YET VERY IDIOTIC PANTHEON OF NICNAMES USED BY HILLMAN'S MINDLESS BORN FOLLOWERS. SOME THINGS WILL NEVER, EVER CHANGE.
Will le Fey
I think 1940s Estonia suits your politics more than anywhere in modern times do.
Yes this is about treason That is why I correctly pointed out Richard Armitage outted Valerie Plame. Because unlike you I want the correct person held accountable. I put in the correction because irresponsible liberal callers and you were blaming the wrong person because you don’t care about facts. You have gone from blaming Libby for outing Plame to saying his is now a supporter of Armitage. You have no facts to support your wild accusations. Just look at the language you use, you believe, you think , and it seems.. I don’t care what you believe or think. I care about what you can prove, which is nothing. You have such a deep hatred for President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Scooter Libby you accuse them of crimes with no evidence to support them. You and Joe Wilson have no credibility. Joe Wilson lied the Senate Intelligence Committee said so. President Bush’s statement in his State of the Union speech about Iraq attempting to buy yellow cake is a fact and has never been discredited. That major piece of intel you said was used to justify the Iraq war was Correct.
1)The British government's independent investigation into the Iraq/Africa uranium connection confirmed President Bush's claims on Iraq seeking nuclear material.
2) The bi-partisan 9/11 Commission's report pointed out Wilson's dishonesty about the assessment of the information in Niger, but also his lies about how he achieved the post in the first place
Multiple African nations have since reported attempts from the Iraqi regime to seek uranium. Last week the British investigation into the Niger case specifically led the investigators to reiterate the British position (from which they had never waivered) - Saddam DID try to buy uranium from Niger. The 9/11 report casts significant doubt over ALL of Wilson's "findings" in Niger.
Your attempt to accuse me of supporting treason is pathetic. You show me in any of my posts where I support Armitage. You can’t! Once again you prove you are drinking large volumes of Kool-aid.
If you harbor a terrorist then you are a terrorist.
If you obstruct an investigation into treason then you have committed treason.
Libby was convicted of obstructing justice in an investigation of treason. Therefore he has committed treason.
The reason the investigation did not go any further than Libby is that he obstructed the investigation. The investigation may have been able to convict Armitage of treason, but the investigation was obstructed. The investigation is important because Armitage could not be convicted on heresay. The heresay could not be verified because of the obstruction.
Why was Wilson mentioned in the 9-11 Commission report? The yellow cake from Niger had nothing to do with 9-11.
Could you post a link to the part of the report that mentions Wilson?
This is the findings of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) concerning the yellow cake from Niger:
(this is a summary from the beginning of the Report. A detailed analysis follows)
The Iraq Survey Group also found no evidence that Iraq sought uranium from
abroad after 1991. With respect to the reports that Iraq sought uranium
from Niger, ISG interviews with Ja’far Diya Ja’far, the head of Iraq’s pre-
1991 enrichment programs, indicated that Iraq had only two contacts with the Nigerien government after 1998—neither of which was related to uranium.
One such contact was a visit to Niger by the Iraqi Ambassador to the Vatican Wissam Zahawie, the purpose of which Ja’far said was to invite the Nigerien President to visit Iraq (a story told publicly by Zahawie).
The second contact was a visit to Iraq by a Nigerien minister to discuss Nigerien purchases of oil from Iraq—with no mention of “any kind of payment, quid pro quo, or offer to provide Iraq with uranium ore, other than cash in exchange for petroleum.”
The use of the last method of payment is supported by a crude oil
contract, dated June 26, 2001, recovered by the ISG.
The ISG found only one offer of uranium to Baghdad since 1991—an offer
that Iraq appears to have turned down.
The ISG found a document in the headquarters of the Iraqi Intelligence Service that reveals that a Ugandan businessman had approached the Iraqi Embassy in Nairobi with an offer to sell uranium, reportedly from the Congo. The Iraqi Embassy in Nairobi,reporting back to Baghdad on the matter on May 20, 2001, indicated that the Embassy told the Ugandan that Iraq did not deal with “these materials” because of the sanctions
(THIS IS THE GOOD PART)
Nuclear Weapons Finding 4
The Intelligence Community failed to authenticate in a timely fashion transparently forged documents purporting to show that Iraq had attempted to procure uranium from Niger.
Intelligence Community agencies did not effectively authenticate the documents regarding an alleged agreement for the sale of uranium yellowcake
from Niger to Iraq. The President referred to this alleged agreement in his
State of the Union address on January 28, 2003— evidence for which the
Intelligence Community later concluded was based on forged documents.
To illustrate the failures involved in vetting this information, some details about its collection require elaboration. The October 2002 NIE included the statement that Iraq was “trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake” and that “a foreign government service” had reported that “Niger planned to send several tons” of yellowcake to Iraq.
The statement about Niger was based primarily on three reports provided by a liaison intelligence service to CIA in late 2001 and early 2002. One of these reports explained that, as of early 1999, the Iraqi Ambassador to the Vatican planned to visit Niger on an official mission. The report noted that subsequently, during meetings on July 5-6, 2000, Niger and Iraq had signed an agreement for the sale of 500 tons of uranium.
This report stated that it was providing the “verbatim text” of the agreement. The information was consistent with reporting
from 1999 showing that a visit to Niger was being arranged for the Iraqi
Ambassador to the Vatican.
Subsequently, Vice President Cheney requested follow-up information from
CIA on this alleged deal. CIA decided to contact the former U.S. ambassador to Gabon, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who had been posted to Niger
early in his career and maintained contacts there, to see if he would be amenable to traveling to Niger. Ambassador Wilson agreed to do so and, armed with CIA talking points, traveled to Niger in late February 2002 and met with former Nigerien officials.
Following the trip, CIA disseminated an intelligence report in March 2002
based on its debriefing of Ambassador Wilson. The report carried the
caveat that the individuals from whom the Ambassador obtained the information were aware that their remarks could reach the U.S. government and “may have intended to influence as well as to inform.” According to this report, the former Prime Minister of Niger said that he was not aware of any contracts for uranium that had been signed between Niger and any rogue states.
He noted that if there had been such an agreement, he would have been aware
of it. He said, however, that in June 1999 he met with an Iraqi delegation to discuss “expanding commercial relations” between Niger and Iraq, which the Prime Minister interpreted as meaning the delegation wanted to discuss yellowcake sales. The Prime Minister let the matter drop, however, because of the United Nations sanctions on Iraq.
The British Government weighed in officially on the Niger subject on September 24, 2002, when it disseminated a white paper on Iraq’s WMD programs stating that “there is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
The story grew more complicated when, on October 9, 2002, several days
after the NIE was published, an Italian journalist provided a package of documents to the U.S. Embassy in Rome, including documents related to the
alleged agreement for the sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq. The State
Department passed these documents on to elements of the CIA. Although the
documents provided to the Embassy by the Italian journalist related to the
purported agreement, these elements of the CIA did not retain copies of the
documents or forward them to CIA Headquarters because they had been forwarded through Embassy channels to the State Department.
WINPAC analysts, for their part, only requested and obtained copies of the
documents several months later—after State’s INR had alerted the Intelligence Community in October 2002 that it had serious doubts about the
authenticity of the documents. And, even after this point, CIA continued to respond to policymakers’ requests for follow-up on the uranium deal with its established line of analysis, without attempting to authenticate the documents and without noting INR’s doubts about the authenticity of the information despite not having looked at the documents with a critical eye.
For example, in mid-January 2003, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
requested information—other than information about the aluminum tubes—
about why analysts thought Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program. In
response, WINPAC published a current intelligence paper pointing to Iraqi
attempts to procure uranium from several African countries, citing “fragmentary reporting,” and making no reference to questions about the authenticity of the source documents. Shortly thereafter, the National Security Council and Office of the Secretary of Defense requested information from the NIO for Strategic and Nuclear Programs and from DIA, respectively, on the uranium deal. The responses included information based on the original reporting, without any mention of the questions about the authenticity of the information.
The CIA had still not evaluated the authenticity of the documents when it
coordinated on the State of the Union address, in which the President noted
that the “British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” Although there is some disagreement about the details of the coordination process, no one in the Intelligence Community had asked that the line be removed. At the time of the State of the Union speech, CIA analysts continued to believe that Iraq probably was seeking uranium from Africa, although there was growing concern among some CIA analysts that there were problems with the reporting.
The IAEA, after receiving copies of the documents from the United States,
reviewed them and IMMEDIATELY CONCLUDED THAT THEY WERE FORGERIES As the
IAEA found, the documents contained numerous indications of forgery—
flaws in the letterhead, forged signatures, misspelled words, incorrect titles for individuals and government entities, and anomalies in the documents’ stamps. The documents also contained serious errors in content. For example, the document describing the agreement made reference to the legal authority for the agreement, but referenced an out-of-date statutory provision.
The document also referred to a meeting that took place on “Wednesday, July
7, 2000” even though July 7, 2000 was a Friday.
When it finally got around to reviewing the documents during the same time
period, the CIA agreed that they were not authentic. Moreover, the CIA concluded that the original reporting was based on the forged documents and was thus itself unreliable. CIA subsequently issued a recall notice at the beginning of April, 2003 for the three original reports, noting that “the foreign government service may have been provided with fraudulent reporting.” On June 17, 2003, CIA produced a memorandum for the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) stating that “since learning that the Iraq-Niger uranium deal was based on false documents earlier this spring we no longer believe that there is sufficient other reporting to conclude that Iraq pursued uranium from abroad.” The NIO for Strategic and Nuclear Programs also briefed the Senate and House Intelligence Committees, on June 18 and 19, respectively, on the CIA’s conclusions in this regard.
Given that there were already doubts about the reliability of the reporting on the uranium deal, the Intelligence Community should have reviewed the documents to evaluate their authenticity as soon as they were made available in early October 2002, rather than waiting over six months to do so. The failure to review these documents caused the Intelligence Community to rely on dubious information when providing highly important assessments to policymakers about the likelihood that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program.
The Community’s failure to undertake a real review of the documents—even
though their validity was the subject of serious doubts—was a major failure of
the intelligence system.
Please read this more than once
This link is to the IIC Report not the ISG Report
After the ISG issued the Duelfer Report Bush created the Iraq Intellegence Committee (IIC) to investigate the intelegence failures that led up to the war.
The link is to the full report from the IIC. There are sections that cover the yellowcake from Niger story, Curveball, Chalabi, aluminum tubes, and just about every other piece of intellegence that was used to sell the war in Iraq.
Put down that kool-aid and respond already.
It took alot of work to prove you are drinking the kool-aid, and I would just like to see you admit you were wrong.
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